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Ettina said in March 29th, 2006 at 7:22

This one source I read regarding childhood onset bipolar disorder said bipolar 2 year olds have been known to kill themselves. Now, bipolar kids are said to have a higher rate of giftedness, but even a gifted 2 year old is believed not to have much concept of death. There are different aspects of understanding death and some studies have suggested that preschooler mostly view death in terms of “the person is gone” but don’t view it as irreversible and so forth. But still, the thing about feeling desperate and killing yourself can occur even as a 2 year old.

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ballastexistenz said in March 29th, 2006 at 9:11

I know people who were suicidal from ages like 2 and 4, and knew what death meant. Not because they had a “mental illness” but because they perceived that they were not valued.

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Mona said in April 25th, 2006 at 22:04

I read that piece also, and I don’t think that’s what Carley meant at all. Carley was discussing probability, not exstinguishing possibility, when he talked about suicide along the spectrum (also, this was one paragraph out of the article). And I find it so indicative of our historically-embedded fear of success that Carley is such an easy target for our angrier autistics. This man is doing an awful lot for our community.

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ballastexistenz said in April 26th, 2006 at 8:40

He was talking about probability, but I think he was wrong about probability. I don’t think people regarded as low-functioning are any less likely to be able to conceptualize suicide than people regarded as high-functioning. In part because I’m aware of the fact that those two labels depend on a small number of characteristics, none of which are awareness.

Characterizing people who disagree with a particular person (people who may, in fact, disagree in totally different ways from each other, and therefore cannot be easily lumped together) as “angrier” or “afraid of success” is not accurate and only serves to cloud the issues we bring up. Nobody, in my mind, has the right to freedom from disagreement, no matter how much they give to a community.

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[...] While I was approving comments today (and marking half the comments I got as spam, ugh) I came across a comment on one of my older entries, Suicide and Autism Severity. The commenter said that the person I was disagreeing with in that entry has done a lot for our community, and that the amount of people who see that person as an “easy target” therefore demonstrates an ingrained fear of success and were the “angrier” autistics. [...]

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Phil Schwarz said in April 26th, 2006 at 21:55

Mona, sorry, but I think you are quite wrong about “historically-embedded fear of success”, about the goodness or badness of anger, and, for that matter, about what really constitutes anger. You are being cavalierly dismissive of people you term “our angrier autistics”, who have laid the very foundations that Michael John (Carley) stands upon to do what he does — and which he quite freely acknowledges. I think you owe Ballastexistenz, and every autistic you think is “angry”, an apology.

– Phil Schwarz

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