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Rosabw said in May 18th, 2006 at 12:20

Your logic is always so thought out.

Still, I think there are people who are naturals at the helping profession. They’re too light hearted to burn out. It’s the control freaks who stress…

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Camille said in May 18th, 2006 at 13:22

Thanks, Ballastexistenz. I don’t care for “autism mom,” either. I can’t see there being “blindness moms” or “deafness moms” or “blind moms” or “deaf moms” or … “paraplegia moms,” I think that it tends to overly define the “Mom” as someone who’s entire life is nothing but autism. I’m not a “disabled” mom or “handicapped” mom, because my child has serious physical problems. It seems a little like self-martyrdom to say “autism mom” or “autism family.” But maybe I’m wrong there.

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Wade Rankin said in May 18th, 2006 at 14:45

I left a response in the comments to my post, in which I tried to explain my intent. That is, I wanted to express ? albeit with a poor choice of words ? the impact of autism on the family of an autistic child. That being said, you are quite right. I can never truly “know” autism, just as you may have difficulty relating to the impact on the non-autistic family members. There is a qualitative difference that makes the impacts impossible to compare, and I certainly don’t mean to imply that the impact of autism on neurotypical family members is as profound as on autistic family members. You had every right to criticize my semantic choice.

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tinted said in May 18th, 2006 at 16:07

I don’t think the whole family of an autistic person is autistic.
But I do think of autism as a role or category within society, rather than something intrinsic to people labelled as autistic.

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Laurentius said in May 18th, 2006 at 16:50

First and Hand are only figures of speech, and as for accounts the reckoning of them is that no-one ever writes an accurate one, (any more than Enron can)

What we write is only an impression, what our own perceptions of events and remembrance lets us.

Where the truth in the account lies, is in the manner it is written not what it says. That is to say whether it is stylistically integral with ones appearance (not literal physical appearance, but what one represents to the world elsewhere), cos chances are if it ain’t then there is some pontifictives *1 going on :)

A parents or siblings account tells you about the relationship in the way it is written n’est ce pas.

*1 pontifictive = pontificating fictional statement, grandiose exclamatory lie.

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ballastexistenz said in May 18th, 2006 at 18:42

Wade, I don’t actually think it’s fair to talk about an impact on non-autistic family members, unless you talk about a whole system, not just a static thing of “non-autistic is normal, therefore insert autism and things become an ‘impact’ rather than another kind of normal”.

My family has generations of people labeled variously (or unlabeled but would be labeled today) autistic, bipolar, dyslexic, dyspraxic, Tourette’s, and mentally retarded. Generations, on both sides. Our non-autistic family members are not usually neurologically typical either.

We can only be considered as a system of people, not an impact of something on a normal family, because as much as some of us have tried to pretend otherwise (while others take pride in it), and as much as some of us have been ashamed of it, and as much as anyone has loved this fact or suffered for it, our family is not what is currently considered “normal”, although we’re all pretty normal to ourselves.

I cannot imagine simply dividing our family along the lines of autistic/non-autistic, and leaving it at that, we are all kinds of people impacting each other in all kinds of ways, some of which have to do with neurological atypicality and some of which do not, some of which have to do with being autistic and some of which do not.

It’s really impossible to say, “the impact of autism on the non-autistic family members” any more than I could tell you the “impact” of “bipolar” on non-”bipolar” family members. These labels are not bombs that were dropped into the middle of an oh-so-normal family, we’re talking generations of eccentrics and mad(wo)men and “slow” people and so forth here, a eugenicist’s nightmare (and personally I’m proud to be that nightmare).

But, the fact that we are interconnected in a complex way (which is part of what I was trying to get at in the post), does not mean the non-autistic family members are autistic, any more than I’m “bipolar” just because some relatives are so labeled. The overall strangeness covers our whole family, but that’s because, we’re, in this day and age and place and time and so forth, strange (not so strange in other places and times, maybe).

So perhaps I can’t know the so-called “impact” of an autistic person in an all-neurotypical (or all-thinking-they’re-neurotypical) family, but it’s because of my background, not because I’m autistic and somehow incapable of taking other perspectives.

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rocobley said in May 19th, 2006 at 7:08

Larry - you’re not a postmodernist are you? I think you said you were once. If so, you are I are going to have an argument at some point I think (I’m a Marxist).

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Laurentius said in May 19th, 2006 at 16:09

Well poor old Marx, a product of his time and the society he lived in if ever there was one, his texts reek of late romanticism, he should have been a poet not a philosopher. How can we suppose that an individual such as he could possibly be able to predict the post modernist chaos we live in now. As for pseudo science, have you ever read Engels Dialectics of Nature ?

These days I much prefer Weber to Marx.

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rocobley said in May 19th, 2006 at 18:20

What postmodernist chaos is that then? I don’t see any.

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ballastexistenz said in May 19th, 2006 at 18:32

I’m not sure I’d want to see you two locked in a small room together.

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Bronwyn G said in May 20th, 2006 at 3:39

Oh, come on.

It would be fun.

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rocobley said in May 20th, 2006 at 6:00

On the contrary, it would probably be quite interesting. I’m actually hoping that Larry is willing to debate all this with me - I’d love to hear his postmodernist view of the modern world. There might be quite a good debate here actually. Debates online are always better than real-time ones. They are of course easier for autistic people generally, but also if someone gives you some data that you haven’t heard then you can check it out before replying to it.
Anyway, Larry, if you’re up for it, so am I. Give us yer beef.

BTW Amanda if you’re already worried about this becoming a fight then you should see Lenin’s Tomb (my favourite blog apart from your own) where the comments page gets *really* raucous very frequently.

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Autism Vox » That c-word again said in May 22nd, 2006 at 11:55

[...] TACA’s autism semantics will raise at least a few eyebrows, such as the reference to “families with autism [emphasis added]” (see the discussion on Ballastexistenz, My whole family is not autistic), not to mention TACA’s prominent use of the c-word. [...]

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scap64 said in June 8th, 2006 at 21:01

I know of a parent who proudly calls themselves and their spouse “an autism family” because they have an autistic child.

They also have non-autistic children. I’ve been very tempted to ask: if one of their children ever says, “Mom, Dad, I’m gay/lesbian”, would they just as proudly start calling themselves “a gay family” or “a lesbian family”??

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Donna Williams said in May 6th, 2007 at 8:33

Hi Amanda,

happened to stumble by here.
had a struggle this week where a visual perceptual challenge was taken as selfishness. I couldn’t get it.

If a blind person fails to consider what you assume they see, is this selfish, egocentric? I think not. But those of us with eyes that see and brains that fail to process, are constantly shouted at, told off, lectured, for not LOOKING, CARING, ASKING etc.

One can’t know what one can’t know. And then I’m told to do nothing without asking or being told first.

So am I do be a bold person living as close to independence as I can, or one who society disables in order to appease them? I am proud at least I declared, I am not a broken orange, I’m a damned fine apple.

But I did cry, then cried more, not because one person hurt my feelings, but because nobody educates these people and I’ve spent 20 years self advocating about things they can’t imagine just because I can hear and see even if processing fails on both levels.

And the irony is this other person felt it was good for me to cry because I was gaining insight… shit, 9 books, a hundred interviews, hundreds of lectures, 12 years as a consultant… when will people learn that an information processing problem is nothing to do with insight, nothing to do with empathy….

I’m tired of the projections and presumptions. But if I can’t make it ‘out there’ which of us can? So one dusts oneself off and goes back to the horse.

aiaiai.

Donna
the arty autie.

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